Karma conversation

All those mailproblems with sending to chip made me ask grim about karma. Made it the topic of the day. lol

A: what is ur take on karma
g:how do you mean?
A: is it real
g: ok, here's the thing, karma is cause and effect
so of course within the realm of anything of cause and effect
it's real
A: so, is there a goal to fulfill in once life
g: remember that thing i explained
about Dreaming (phenomenal world) that dreams a Dreamer (mind/body) dreaming a Dream (individual experience)
karma applies to all of that
but, seeing as how being Awake is what it is
if Awake isn't spontaneously realized as it is
then, karma is a utilization to realize it
so, if you ask if there is something someone i supposed to do in one's life
that's it
A: ok
so, if this is for real, then I have made an agreement to achieve something, correct
but I have no clue of what it is
g: if you have made that agreement,
i mean, you can change your mind if you want
A: can I
g: sure, but essentially
if at the time you are "changing your mind"
if it is not deeper than the level that you made the agreement on
then your mind isn't really going to be changed
obviously
its like
if you've said, "tomorrow, i REALLY want to eat cheese"
and then during the rest of the day
you're like,
well, maybe i dont want to eat cheese
and then you're like, "well, i actually dont think i want to eat cheese, i'm going to eat crackers instead"
but if that decision, was not actually deeper than your first decision
then you're going to eat cheese
then
you're going to think you didn't have a choice
and you were driven to eat cheese
A: but in this case I did not even know I wanted cheese
g: no, somewhere along the line
you wanted it
and you asked for it
cause and effect
something isn't choosing something for you
that's not how it works
it might seem that way
but that's not what's really going on
for example
let's take the cheese analogy and deepen
what if it was a month ago or something
and you totally forget
that you said that
A: ok
g: then you're eating cheese
and ur like, "i didn't even want this, i wanted crackers"
but that wasn't really the case
it only seems like it
we kinda had this conversation a little bit last time, about how uh
you said, that you were driven towards this and you didn't have a choice
and then i said, well if you know you dont have a choice, then why be mad?
A: because if I made a choice to achieve something, then why am I not allowed to do it MY way
g:because this is the same thing
because
if the choice to achieve that thing, is greater than wanting to do it your way,
then the choice to achieve that, (whatever it entails) takes precedence
so essentially
if you want to achieve that, no matter what it entails, then that is greater than the want to do it your way
and besides
actually, you are doing it your way,
by wanting to achieve that, no matter what it entails

.
.
g: we're going back to what we said earlier
just because you can't remmeber that you asked for that thing
additionally
it should be noted
that even if you can't remember, it's still happening
soooo
ultimatly, there's nothing to complain about
its no bigs
just take stock, and move forward
A: its just that soo much time is wasted only to figure out what the hell I´m supposed to do, when I am not in charge
g: no, much of your time is wasted, because you're trying to figure out what to do how you want to do it
A: pretty much the same
g: yea, so stop that
lol

thanks grim

Perception

Sometimes Grim brings up “perception”. Here a snippet of a conversation:
grim: what is the choosing to eat the things you do?
grim: fun eh?
grim: what is the choosing to take the pictures you do?
Aurora: what does that have to do with the subject
grim: is that part of the Universe?
grim: ?
chip: Is it part of the perception?
grim: all i asked was WHAT is the choosing to take the pictures you do?
grim: is it, part of the Universe
grim: you said yes
grim: then, to go back to what i said
grim: The Universe also includes your apparent wanting
later:
chip: anyway...you understand what grim was saying?
Aurora: ya I know, I am just disturbed that I seem to be kept in the damned body all the time
chip: the body is necessary for enlightenment
Aurora: I feel like they hang stones on my feet and throw me in water, I can´t fly
chip: then swim
chip: There is something telling you you can't...
chip: you need to find what it is so you you can tell it you can!
Later:
Aurora: yesterday I realised why I don´t really want to work, or rather I did put it into words. I don´t like the collision between body and spirit. Demands of the body disturbes it.
chip: you seek solitude a good deal that is evident

And then they want me to go over the same stuff again. It is just that I don´t see “myself” as the body. The body is just a tool. Even if the tool mostly covers and hides its inhabitant. The inhabitant, the real me, is always there, listening, seeing, sugesting, needing, waiting. I always had this division. That what is the real “me” is that what is not visible, but more real then the body and it´s senses. I see the body and the senses only as tools to gather information which the “real me” needs somehow. Why the body “wants” things is mostly biology. Other things like “why I am taking pics” is more a way of “wasting time” with something that, at least, feels like a bit good to do. It is not a spiritual “want” or even a human “want”, just something to do while waiting for the bomb to go off. If it does not, well, then I did not waste this life completely, as I did something that was quite nice and some others liked it too.

Yes, the body and it´s senses is also a part of the Universe which I worked hard to make others understand, you can´t separate them. But for now, the body feels irrelevant, I need it to let spirit come first and take command.

It is weird because right now both parts of me is trying to communicate this. Don´t know if it comes thru to anything understandable.

When it comes to the Sutra I was reading, as also some of what grim tries to work with me, I find it is a lot of things already dealt with, and a lot of things that is not needed. Why spend weeks dealing with something that is not relevant? That does not belong to what is “me”. The sutra talked so much philosophy that, that, is what I remember most. What was important became hidden.

For Grim

I hope you find the treasure at the end of the rainbow.

True Identity

(on Collections) If my true identity is unchangeable, then why i am in this world ??

Aries981 said:
I believe in simple philosophy, that i am the truth and i am never changing. Well then my question is why i am then in this world. Why i am associated with this body. Is this universe is real ??Please help me in finding answers to these questions..


aries981
IMO the belief has a solid base. And…. the universe is real. There is only one Universe and as such, everything is real. (you just don´t know everything!)

If you want proof you can go to science. What science can´t help you with is how to experience it.
If you take your finger and follow it down the line as far as it goes you will in the end come to that what is unchanging. You first has the skin, then molecules, then atoms, then ….. all the way down to what is the web of the Universe, and science yet has to unfold that. It is the same for all things and all living beings. We can´t exist without it. It is our buildingblocks, the very foundation of what we are.

The same happens for yogis that follow the train of thought and mind. So it appers to be the same Universe no matter what way you follow. And it has to be!

What I can´t tell you is how it works, why that “unchangable” creates us. IF IT REALLY IS UNCHANGEBLE! But that would be hard to find out. Personally I am open to that scenario. It is evolving through us. IMO.

Question arises, grim, if it is unchangeble, why do we grow? Isn´t our growth a result of the Universes own growth? CAN we evolve if the Universe doesn´t? Or are we limited to what already is there?

aries, more questions then answers as it turned out.
my Gallery: www.oegallery.com/SpiritualNature
Posted: 2007-04-07 06:35:11

Absolute truth...

In thread "Deuteronomy 13" on Collections:
Posted: 2007-03-31 16:06:16

quote chip:
"Absolute truth cannot be known because 'known' is a misnomer. Absolute truth is knowing. And it can't be expressed absolutly.
If anything it will make one ultra liberal for it, ( absolute truth) transcends all relative conditional knowledge, being both the fabric conditional knowledge is written and remaining unstained.
Without parts, it's wholely unconcerned about the conditional squabbles of man over it's characteristics, for it is wholey present and nothing is lost, nothing is destroyed, nothing is harmed, nothing is gained, man bubbles up, man sinks back, stars supernova, and there is not even a blip in man's time measure we call eternity.
This discussion is not absolute truth. Absolute truth exists (present tense) before 'let there be light' before the performance of Tapas, non modifiable by reasoning. It's why all questions whither in it's presence.
This post is also not absolute truth. But it matters less then this comma, for that which is unchangeable won't be affected by it.
say on fellas....
Back to what i was doing, for now, i have the robins to watch and the swaying willows."

quote grim: "It's also why all questions form in its presence."

Trapped in the biofilter & Photos

Happened to say that in a conversation with grim the other day. Something more has happened to him. Seems like he was pushed a bit further. I am happy about it.

Guess it is not all that wrong to say. Wanting to sneak out but getting nowhere.

Never mind!

About the photographic adventure I started up as a mean to keep myself busy and eventually earn a dollar or two. Can´t play Tetris for the next 25 years of my life and the money I get from unemployment insurance is getting smaller by the month. I have to build my life anew.

People often tells me they like my pictures and I am rather satiesfied with them. But when I uploaded some to those Stock-companies ALL my pics was refused. Bad light, too blurry, too much noise in them. Even one was mentioned to be “poor composition”.

Spent most of today with searching the net to find out why. I can see the problem with “noise”, I even have a program that can deal with it. But the rest! If I take a pic with sun reflecting in the water, it is supposed to be bright light in the glittering sparkles. They told me it was “lightening problems purple fringe and blown highlights or lenses flare.

Don´t they know how nature works? When I looked around in different sites there are NO pics like mine. They would be refused as “too much noise, film grain” and such. Most pics are clearly enhanced in PhotoShop or other programs. Very strong in colors. Not much natural about it. They look like you dropped the colorbox in them.

Well, am not giving up yet. Can spend a couple of days working on it. But I might end up making my own site if I like to show my stuff.

Crap

Been writing the below notes as a respond to two threads in Collections. But then, why the h-l shall I “teach” awakened people. Why do I have this urge to do this? It is NOT my business.

If awakening don´t produce individuals that are sensitive to others, what the hell are they good for? I can think of nothing else then it is the A that pushes me, bothers me, gives me idéas. And it pisses me off. If it wants “my” services they are welcome to take possession of this body. Don´t bother me. Think I shall buy that camera and start some serious photographing. Found a site where you can ad your photos and get a little pay when somebody downloads them. Worth a try maybe, and would keep mind of the spiritual crap.

Saw my daughter and granddaughter on the internet right now, playing rugby.

_________________________________________________________
the thought that appeared:
Response to what grim assumed: you thought I was refering to all your posts, but I wasn´t. I saw, and felt (I know, not 100% reliable), AsI:s and no-1:s responses. Then I reacted to that. They seemed to wonder why you were never satisfied.

Am in the middle of working out (as in wheightlifting) and this subject on y mind, now I am getting angry, not at you grim, at the Absolute. I might ad something more on the blog later, but this will do for now.


ej på collection.
have been thinking if this should be taken off forum or in here, but you said ELABORATE so, what the heck.


noted:
*chip thought it to be a koan-discussion
but with a koan then u try to understand ONE koan not every single word ro reaction along the line,

*selfseeker said that it is a well established techniqe used by spiritual teachers.
but they sit in ashrams when student has time to think and ponder. I doubt that they are given 20 questions a day.


Grim, you ask too many questions, people has no time to let it sink and do its work. They don´t even know Your status or motives for doing it. I think they have the right to know.

When working with this neti-neti I understand that one takes ONE question and follow it as far down the line as possible. Not working with20 at the same time. And, grim, you jump at everything you see. I saw both no-1-awakens and AsI express doubts on what is going on. I know that when I get everything I say slapt in my face I stop talk and shout down. I think they are at that point.

You also must consider that people might not have time to think throu things. Often a response might be made between work and fetching kids and put them to sleep. A quick response is easily forgotten.


ändra!
I know you refered to what I said in privat, that your name is everywhere. Yes, you still do that. Turning every thread into a single topic. Getting on the way to the Absolute. But when people starts a topic it might be what they want to discuss. Know that people is different, everyone is not meant to go all the way. When you spoil their topic they leave. Remember our fights in the past??

why am I even bothering? So far nobody even managed to convince me that it is important. Shit!!