LOVE, ILLUSION, ENLIGHTMENT AND PERFECT

Posted: Apr 12 2005, 05:34 PM by Ladyhawk

The words in the title of this thread are those words that causes me the biggest trouble.

“LOVE” as the “love” of the universe is not the same as the human feeling “love”. That took me a lot of time to understand. Eddie gave me the word Compassion for this specific kind of love. Maybe it is a better word to use.

“ILLUSION” still troubles me as I can´t accept that a part of the Universe is called an illusion. To me it is all real, just different perspectives. Mostly due to the limited way our human bodies are created.

“ENLIGHTENMENT” as there seem to be several definitions on that word. If I “go to the bottom” with this, then God is the Universe in the state of “absolute zero” (-273,15 ºC). At that temperature nothing moves or changes. As soon as it heats up just a little bit life begins. But where did the heat come from?? How can something motionless eternally cold, suddenly be heated??? Even a consiousness IS something. It exists and moves. Where did it come from?

“PERFECT” If we are already perfect and there are noone here to be bettered. Then somebody, please, explain that contradiction to me. Why are we then hopelessly trying to achieve something we don´t even have a clue of? If we are so perfect and we are not really here as we don´t exist, why am I typing all this nonsence??

LIFE is contradiction.

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Two of the most important responses:

Posted: Apr 13 2005, 05:56 AM by Eddie

Actually, I didn’t give the word compassion.

There is no “human” compassion or “human” love because of the state of enlightenment. That’s a total myth… The “love” that is there is beyond the capacity of the human mind to understand and can only be known directly at an experiential level.

If we make a up word to try and describe what it is there, it cannot be done, because words are limited, as are thoughts and what is being described is infinite and ineffable. Consequently every time we try and define consciousness, god or Buddha etc, we limit it. But at the same time, people apparently want to become enlightened so a pointer is provided and the words love and compassion are used in this context: as pointers.

When operating from your natural state of enlightenment, then there is NO service to humanity as a form. The service is to God or ultimate reality. The two are different things.

You also have to remember that the physical form is not the enlightened thing. Our physical brains do not suddenly become enlightened. The remembrance that you are consciousnesses in ultimate reality is what may occur though. Form may then align itself with that rememberance..

This is not perceived through any of the physical senses; it is beyond the mind and form to perceive and is why it is ineffable in nature because it transcends mind and form. Pointing is really all that can be done from this perceptive. The only way you can know is to come and see for yourself.

On the illusion, if you understand that everything in the universe is dependent upon perception then conceptually that’s all that needs to be known… That’s all there is to it. In other words, there is no physical seeing of the illusion, you don’t see the illusion through your eyes for example.

If you understand that everything is illusion, bar one thing, then you can question everything conceptually. Does that table really exist, even though you physically see it for example? By chopping up everything in this manner, then eventually you’re left with the one thing that cannot be chopped up, which is the absolute.

Then your life changes, because instead of the concept that there is an illusion, there is a direct experience of oneness…. Functionally it works like this.

You perceive things without labels, concepts, dogmas, ideas, thoughts etc. An example would be seeing a rose. Physically I see a rose there just like anyone else. But what is different is that the “rose” is not labelled and no meaning is derived from the rose. For example, I don’t think about why the rose is there or if it smells good or not or if it’s pretty or not. So all that mental chatter either stops altogether for periods, or no attention is paid to the mental chatter of ego.

There is just an object there, that is the reflection of “I”, which is love. The “rose” then is experienced as “I” but with no one doing the observation of the rose. There is just “rose” (no labels though). However if I need to communicate with another human being (even though I know it’s I as a dis-identified entity), then I need to use the symbol “rose” as a starting place to understanding ultimate reality.

On enlightenment, I understand the confusion. Just to repeat, the confusion stems from the fact that we don’t have adequate words to describe it. So when terms like void or emptiness or nothing is used, it denotes that there is "nothing" there, which is not the actual case.

There is nothing there in terms of human conception. For example, there are no concepts, no ideas, no humans, no universe, no multiple universes. Absolute reality is devoid of these things. Yet at the same time we can point to some of the apparent qualities of Absolute Reality: eg., Unconditional acceptance, Intelligence, aliveness, awareness, love etc. Except that you have to remember that the pointing is not the thing itself. Like when I use intelligence, I only use it because it’s one of the closest words we have to the actual experience of the Absolute. The concept of intelligence is not there in other words, but something exists that is a bit like intelligence when it’s tried to be understood by a physical brain and conveyed to another.

Perfection: You are typing here because you believe you are a human being. As such you believe you are limited and in this limitation there is a perception of imperfection. In terms of a human form, at a deeper level you already know that nothing is what it appears to be, that something is fundamentally illusionary and that you’re limited as a human being. Most of the time, this is completely unconscious, as used in the psychological sense of the word.

In people it will manifest in many different ways. It can manifest as in “I don’t quite fit in”, “depression” , “things will be ok when I find someone to love and to love me”, “it will be ok when I become more compassionate”, “when I am enlightened, I will be in bliss”, “there has to be more to life”, “nothing works” etc…

So there is this underlying sense in all human beings to get things “right”, because they have identified with a limited perception of the world and the universe. This is a cognitive and experiential dissonance with the Absolute. In turn it manifests as a spiritual search, be it in this life time or in life times to come. You start to seek the answers, so that you can be “right”. You want to confirm that your on the right path, you want your version of enlightenment and so on…

When you find absolute truth though, you will find that right and wrong don’t exist nor does enlightenment. That’s the rub…

What exists is the Absolute, and when we know this directly, then we no longer identify ourselves as ego, but rather “know” with a sense beyond ordinary human knowing, that our real identity is God. In other words “I” is God, not Eddie.

Why then does this occur? Because its Gods nature to create, which includes creating the perception of illusion…

See it isn’t that God created the earth but rather God created the perception of an earth. It is God that wants to have that perception of what it’s like to live on this little speck of a planet and be a little speck of a human being, without knowing it’s all God fundamentally.

Even using the word create is a bit erroneous, because it implies a beginning and an end. This is eternal creation… it always was this way and always will be this way. The illusion will remain regardless of whether humanity as form survives or not. It is God experiencing God as a planet, as a star, as a universe as a rock, as a completely different universe, and so on.

To answer the question why? God loves experiences, all of them…

What is humanities purpose? To come to know this directly, so that God then has an experience of what it’s like for everyone to be awakened. Even if the world was destroyed tomorrow, all that would happen is that you would identify with energy. For example, a soul, going to heaven etc. At this level, you would reincarnate as some micro-organism and evolution would begin again. If that is not possible on this planet, then it would occur on another planet of even another universe. You may even reincarnate as a 3 arm creature or something we cannot imagine as yet.

Its “humanities” destiny to awaken, and there is nothing anyone can do about it. When humanity awakens then that will be an experience in consciousness of everyone awake. It will be illusion too, but everyone will know it is, and that will make the world of difference.

This is what is meant by everything coming together, everything will know God directly in this universe. When that occurs, there will be another universe somewhere, that won’t know God directly and the cycle continues. Always more universes created with different laws etc that don’t know they are God, and always eventually returning to source.

When this universe is destoyed it wont matter at all then. Becuase you allready are "I", allready are God. Then you will experience the totality of the illusion. Thats the ultimate "miracle"...

So take a load of and watch the show, all is good and all is happening as meant to be.

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Posted: Apr 13 2005, 07:06 PM by chip

to put it another way My Lady.........

Absolute zero does not mean a temprature, it means no matter whatsoever, and even the word 'spirit' is not accurate because we all have a concept of what 'spirit' may be, so it's called zero, no thing.

Matter surrounds it ( to put it simply,) and it permeates all froms. So we have this 'it' that has a body called by many names, female, your given name, your family name, your user name, your work title, grandma, mother, and all these have certain feelings, and obligations and mannerisms and perceptions, a whole mental construction attached to them. Will the real Ladyhawk please stand up? What is basic to all these is self aware consciousness. The closer one can get to self aware consciousness with no interferance from all the mental constucts the closer the 'real', the basic being is realised.

This basic being has no limitations it has no wants, no needs, it is full of it's self. This is what I mean by abundance of being. And this is often expressed as compassion by the person aware of it. It's called compassion because there is a feeling of abundance of self that is called compassion by those on the outside who see the affects of the person's inner experiencing.A lot is said about love....IMO, love is what moves us out of our shell. Attached love brings pain because of the nature of change. There are few who realise, " I can love, you need not love me back" and this is very close to the nature of compassion because there is no need attached to it. But it is not wise to give any loveup because it has some attachement to it, this is not a sterile existance nor are we dealing with a sterile basic being it's always pregnant with itself. We love at beginning love and move from there.

The world of illusion.....If we realise most of what we see is incomplete in our perception because we have limited 5 sense, and our judgement of what we see is colored by our conditioning, we have a pretty good working basis for understanding illusion. The greatest part of illusion is the seperatness we percieve between ourselves and the rest of the phenomanal world. Please notice the phrase "rest of the phenomenal world' as if what is beyond our percieved being is some kind of left overs, not directly related to us.

Ladyfriend, we exist in a cyclical world, with a cyclical body and a mind that percieves only cycles, it cannot grasp what has no beginning and end. It's not made for that. That we can have a concept of eternal is a wonderful marvel to me, based most likely, on observation of what appears to be relativly eternal to our own cycling. The only way I know to experienceit is thru meditation in a state that has no object and no act of perception, hence no time. it is also here that indivisable occurrs and changes perception of seperatness.

So, what is the up shot here? All forms are patterned on one basic universal awareness, it's judged to be most evident in human beings on this planet. Because it is so basic to existance we wish to explore it as our most basic identity. Because we all have to swim thru our individualise patterns of conditioning to get to it we choose what seems the best way. And along the way encounter more subtle forms of conditioning that may sidetrack us a little into views that are not right on target. But not to worry, as long as we keep saying 'maybe not this' we will come to a point beyond which there is nothing further. It's built into our hard drive, each and everyone of us, our destiny.

http://spiritual-forum.net/iboard/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=1017&hl=perfection&s=1c92df206374515334f68c4f9ef1bf86